Hate speech laws are bad.


First off a disclaimer, Most of what I know about Mr Toben comes from newspapers, and a look at some unsavoury websites that think hes great.

 

Hes the sort of bloke Id be inclined to spit on if he started his anti Semitic crap to my face, and didn’t stop when asked to. Hes lower than a snakes ballbag, so slimy slugs pour salt on him, a tosspot of the first order.

Hitler called, hed like his clown shoes back.

Hitler called, hed like his clown shoes back.

However this is wrong.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/13/2569170.htmJail

A Holocaust denier living in Adelaide has been sentenced to three months in jail after being found guilty of 24 charges of contempt.

More under the fold.

Notice the offence he has been gaoled for is contempt, therefore hoping to avoid any controversy over freedom of speech. However the originalorder he was found to have breachedwas related to racial vilification of Jewish people, specifically denying the holocaust even took place.

Now a man asserting such things isn’t a threat to a normal society, if he put on a bright red nose and big floppy shoes he wouldn’t be more of a clown.  However by sending this pussbag to gaol they give him some credibility he was never deserving. Its a mistake, let idiots like this speak, then rebut their stupid claims, and be prepared to do it over and over, because the world isn’t short of idiots.

Here’s the original offence which led to this gaol term as reported.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s197848.htm

ANNE BARKER: The Human Rights Commission in its ruling has ordered Dr Tobento remove the offending materialfrom the website of the Adelaide Institute, of which he’s the director, and to apologise to Jeremy Jones and Australia’s Jewish community for inciting racialhatred and to undertake not to publish such material again. But Dr Toben remains unrepentant and says he’s the one being persecuted by being denied the right to free speech.

FREDRICK TOBEN: The apology, as far as I’m concerned, is an unconditional surrender. I could never sign anything like that because it would mean that the content of our website would never be discussed.

Notice how the offence is generated by a tribunal, not a court, this is a worry because in essence it allows the imprisonment of a man by generating a contempt charge, based on a tribunals rulings. Shades of the Erza Levant affair in Canada (If Erza had been a Nazi dick of course).  The only major difference is the tribunal lets the court do the gaoling.

Heres what the HEROC has to say about the case.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/cyberracism/vilification.html

In the case of Jones v Toben the Federal Court found that a website that denied the Holocaust and vilified Jewish people was unlawful under Racial Discrimination Act 1975. The material posted on the Internet by Dr Fredrick Tobencast doubt on the Holocaust, suggested that homicidalgas chambers at Auschwitz were unlikely and that some Jewish people, for improper purposes including financialgain, had exaggerated the number of Jews killed during World War II. In 2000, the Human Rights and EqualOpportunity Commission had found the material to be in breach of the Racial Discrimination Act. The complainant, President of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Mr Jeremy Jones, then applied to the Federal Court to enforce HREOC’s determination. [20]

Federal Court Justice Bransonstated she was “satisfied that it is more probable than not that the material would engender in Jewish Australians a sense of being treated contemptuously, disrespectfully and offensively”. She ordered the respondent, Dr Toben, to remove offensive material from the World Wide Web.

Hes an idiot that is going to gaol for defying a court ruling, to wit, take down the website OR face penalties. Tobin hasn’t done it, so the court is enforcing its ruling. The courts hands are tied, Tobin should be punished for defying its rulings, however I intensely dislike the underhanded way HEROC, an unelected group, has managed to send a man to gaol, based on his muddle headed opinions. That’s the act of 3rd rate despotism’s not Australia. In addition Mr Tobin has already spent over a year in a German gaol on similar charges, again, making a dickhead a hero.

Now I’m going to break a little rule of my own and link to Stormfront, a vile clutch of scum if ever there was. Please don’t click if you think it will upset you. However I am linking to a post that has a radio interview of Tobin in his own words, and clearly outlines just how they’ve managed to make a “hero” out of a clown.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=552003

Here’s the post for those who don’t want to click the link.

Frederick Tobin interviewed
http://www.radiofreemississippi.net/…-12.151205.mp3

“I am operating under a Federal Court of Australia Gag Order that prohibits me from questioning/denying the three pillars on which the >Holocaust-Shoah< story/legend/myth rests:

1. During World War II, Germany had an extermination policy against European Jewry;
2. of which they killed six million;
3. using as a murder weapon homicidal gas chambers. It is impossible to discuss the >Holocaust< with such an imposed constraint. I therefore am merely reporting on matters that I am not permitted to state.

For example, if I state the >Holocaust< is:

1. a lie;
2. six million Jews never died, or
3. the gas chambers did not exist, then I would claim that I am merely reporting on what expert Revisionists such as Professors Butz/Faurisson, et al, are stating in public.

Anyone who refuses to believe in these three pillars of orthodoxy will face a world-wide group of enforcers who will use any means to destroy dissenting voices. The problem is that these pillars are not set in concrete, though attempts at setting them in legal concrete have been under way for decades – without success.

The latest victims imprisoned for refusing to BELIEVE in the >Holocaust-Shoah< narrative are Germar Rudolf, Ernst Zündel & Sylvia Stolz in Germany; Siegfried Verbeke in Belgium, and Wolfgang Fröhlich & Gerd Honsik in Austria.

If you wish to begin to doubt the >Holocaust-Shoah< narrative, you must be prepared for personal sacrifice, must be prepared for marriage and family break-up, loss of career, and go to prison. This is because Revisionists are, among other things, dismantling a massive multi-billion dollar industry that the >Holocaust-Shoah< enforcers are defending, as well as the survival of Zionist-racist Israel. So, do not cry when the knock on the door takes you away from family and friends. Such experiences can be character-building. Revisionists are not foolish or naive but realistic as befitting someone who still cherishes such life-affirming ideals as Love, Truth, Honour, Justice, Beauty!

 

In futher proof of Blairs law, who else do you think loves Freddy boy?

(Full Kudos to crikey for this piece)

http://www.crikey.com.au/2006/12/13/the-iranian-holocaust-conference-attracts-the-usual-cranks/

The Iranian Holocaust Conference currently being held in Tehran has attracted the usual collection of sceptics, deniers and cranks. The two-day event, initiated by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, aims to discuss whether six millions Jews were killed by the Nazis in the 1930s and ‘40s and the existence of gas chambers in the death camps.

The Iranian foreign ministry has said that 67 foreign researchers from 30 countries were allowed to participate, and included notorious Holocaust denier and Adelaide resident, Frederick Tobin (who brought a model of Auschwitz that allegedly “proved” the absence of gas chambers there), Michele Renouf, an Australian socialite who supports “Holocaust sceptics” and David Irving, former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke and a host of other notorious figures.

I realise that Tobin hasn’t inspired these blokes to be radical scum, but by gaoling him he becomes a heroic figure in their eyes.

Similar law was used to attempt to gaol the 2 “catch the fire” ministers for defaming Islam a couple of years back.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9747/christian-pastors-found-guilty-of-vilifying-islam

 

Fortunately that case considerably dampened the HEROCs zeal for further prosecutions, however it remains to be seen if they will continue to restrain themselves now we have a new government in power.

 

Id also like to know if HEROC intends to deal with a couple of other cases that may have escaped its attention over the last few years?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224 : 

Sydney’s most influential radical Muslim cleric has been reportedly caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.

Sheikh Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool, delivers the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series, sold in Australia and overseas, News Limited newspapers report.

 

Funny that happened about the same time as the other 2 cases, I wonder what was different…..

7 Responses to “Hate speech laws are bad.”

  1. VodkaBlogger Says:

    In Toben’s mind he just couldn’t lose. If the contempt charges were dismissed he’d claim a victory for his version of history over that of the regular and rational folk. If he got convicted and sentenced to jail he gets to harp on about how he is being persecuted for speaking his mind.

    Not sure what it’s like elsewhere but from here in France access to Toben’s YouTube videos (I won’t link to it but search for ‘Fredrick Toben’ on YouTube and you’ll find his channel) is blocked, I assume because they violate the laws on the denial of crimes against humanity here. Again, when it comes to disseminating his message online, Toben can’t lose: he either gets his propaganda out or – by being blocked like he is here – he gets to claim muzzling by people afraid of the truth.

    The guy is definitely a ‘weapons grade’ dickhead but, sadly, no matter what the court went on this case it was only going to provide him with more oxygen.

  2. VodkaBlogger Says:

    Find him not-guilty and he gets to claim a victory for his propaganda. Find him guilty and send him down and he gets to spruik that he is being muzzled by people afraid of the truth.

    It’s the same with his online propaganda. Here in France his YouTube channel is blocked, I assume because it violates our laws on the denial of crimes against humanity. As a result Toben and his ilk get to claim that the state is afraid of their arguments. Let his videos through and he’ll claim a victory.

    A ‘weapons grade’ dickhead, for sure, but whatever way the court ruled Toben was going to claim a victory.

  3. VodkaBlogger Says:

    Feel free to delete one of the two comments I’ve already sent (and this one, too) as I think either the site is eating them or there’s a glitch at my end where they aren’t showing up. Apologies for the multiple comments.

    • Angus Dei Says:

      No wucking furries, mate. There’s plenty of room. LOL!

  4. VodkaBlogger Says:

    Send him jail and he gets to be a martyr. Let him off and he’ll claim a victory for his version of history.

    It’s the same with his YouTube channel. It’s blocked here in France, I assume because of our laws on the denial of crimes against humanity. As a result, Toben gets to claim he is being censored by people afraid of the truth. Remove the block and he’ll claim that the authorities are finally coming around to his point of view.

    The court could not win on this one.

  5. thefrollickingmole Says:

    What worries me is the assumption by people (with good intentions) that you only have to win the arguement once. Then using “lawfare” so they dont have to go around constantly stamping out the bushfires of ignorance that spring up.

    Unfortunately that can be worse than the tedium of pointing out to pointy heads their facts are all fucked up. I understand the court hasnt got any wriggle room, but the tribunal (Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commision), made a huge grab to extend its powers around 2000 onwards.

    Democracy means having the same arguements over and over, unfortunately at times….

    Tobin is allready claiming a “victory” by stating “they wouldnt argue against my facts”, which plays to the penut gallery that might be inclined to follow him. Anyone with knowledge of the law knows that the case you are fighting (contempt in this one) is the case you are fighting, not something alltogether irrelivant to the court. (The trial isnt about what he claimed, its about wether he comitted contempt by defying the last ruling of the court)

    It is hard to know the best way to deal with clowns like this, my thoughts are, let them make fools of themselves.

  6. Akira Says:

    Why do you descend to mindless invective?

    Töben is correct. That’s exactly why he’s being persecuted. If he was a “raving idiot” he would be countered.

    There were no gas chambers. There was no organized genocidal campaign. The death toll is grossly exaggerated. Most deaths were not murders. The “trials” were a bad joke.

    And contrary to Nürnberg nonsense, there were no steam chambers, no electric floors, no Jew-Fat soap, no Jew-lampshades, no shrunken heads, nor any Nazi nuclear bombings of Jews.

    If you prefer to believe in such nonsense, I won’t demand you be locked up for your idiocy.


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